In an in-depth interview with Daily News Egypt, Pakistan’s Ambassador to Cairo, Aamir Shouket, detailed the robust and evolving relationship between the two nations. Against a backdrop of significant regional instability, Ambassador Shouket discussed the extensive cooperation in defence and counter-terrorism and outlined a clear vision for expanding the modest $300m trade volume by leveraging untapped potential in sectors ranging from information technology and tourism to mining and agriculture. He also elaborated on Pakistan’s official stance on the devastating war in Gaza and the escalating tensions between Iran and Israel, underscoring a shared commitment with Egypt to pursue diplomacy and de-escalation.
In light of the current changes and rising uncertainty in the region, can we expect a greater rapprochement in defence and security between Egypt and Pakistan in the upcoming period?
Yes, we have very good ongoing cooperation; our military-to-military cooperation is strong. If you look back at the recent past, we have participated in the Bright Star exercise and some other exercises. Egyptian troops have visited Pakistan to join us in exercises, and they participated in the Defence Expo in Pakistan.
Numerous delegations visit. Our Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee visited Egypt, and there is a planned visit in the near future as well. The joint committee covers a range of subjects. We also have a military officer undergoing training here at the Nasser Higher Military Academy, and an Egyptian officer is training in Pakistan. So that kind of training is also ongoing. I am pretty satisfied with the level of military-to-military cooperation, which is very strong and gaining further strength, and hopefully will continue to do so in the years to come.
Regarding terrorism, has there been any development in cooperation between Cairo and Islamabad on counter-terrorism efforts?
Yes, we have a very close collaboration. I cannot speak about the details, but yes, I can say that there have been joint exercises as well.
Do you think the current levels of economic and trade cooperation are satisfactory, and how can joint trade and investment be boosted?
This is one area where we can say that the trade and investment between our two countries are not up to their potential.Our bilateral trade, both ways, is around $300m, plus or minus. But we think, and Egypt thinks the same way, that there is much more room to grow. There may be one odd sector where we compete, but we also complement each other.
I’ll tell you how. Egypt, like Pakistan, is known for producing high-quality textiles and cotton products. Egyptian cotton, of course, is very exclusive in the world, so it goes to very exclusive brands. Other Egyptian brands then need yarn and fabric to produce in their factories, which comes from Pakistan, because we are also one of the largest cotton-producing countries. Our cotton may not be as exclusive as Egyptian cotton for the very high-end brands, but for your day-to-day products, it’s very popular in the world, be it home textiles or ready-made garments.
Most importantly, Egypt also offers very fertile ground in the sense that there are these exclusive economic zones. Egypt’s position as a gateway to Africa and its proximity to Europe also makes it very attractive for business people from Pakistan to come and set up their industrial plants here. Already, there are a few: at least two textile factories and one which camerecently for football manufacturing. You would probably know that Pakistan is the leading football manufacturing nationin the world, particularly the match balls. The footballs used by Adidas for the FIFA World Cup, the Euro League, and the Bundesliga are all made in Pakistan. Now, such a factory has been set up in Egypt by a Pakistani group, and we are happyto note that a number of footballs will now be produced here in Egypt for events like the World Cup and for UEFA.
And what about Egyptian investment in Pakistan? What sectors do you think Egyptian companies could explore?
Investment going the other way, into Pakistan, is also important, because Egypt has acquired excellence in a number ofareas. For example, high-end property development, where Egypt has become very popular. There is a major Egyptian group which has been in Pakistan for many years. To begin with, they were the owners of the biggest mobile phone operator in Pakistan, which they sold. But now, for a few years, they have entered the property development market. They have established one of the best properties in Islamabad, with a golf course like the many you have here in Cairo, with modern, European-standard villas. It has become very popular, although it’s for high-end users, but we needed such a thing.
The other sector, which is very important and where we can learn and benefit from Egypt, is tourism. The Egyptian tourism sector is very well-advanced. We have so many touristic places in Pakistan, but of a different nature. You offer more antiquities and, on the other hand, the Red Sea; we have high-altitude mountains, skiing, and trekking. But the basics are the same: hospitality, training, the management of tourists, and the management of the industry itself. That is another area where there is a lot of potential for Egyptian companies to come.
One other area I don’t want to forget to mention is the mining sector. Pakistan has recently opened up this sector forinvestment, and there has been an indication by certain Egyptian groups that they are interested. Pakistan is sitting on a wealth of mines and rare earth metals, from copper and zinc to gold. There has been investment that came in, but we want more to come in. So that is one area where we see a lot of potential for working with Egypt.
Has the Pakistani government introduced any new incentives to attract foreign investment in these sectors?
Exactly. For the past two years, the Government of Pakistan has established a new body called the Special Investment Facilitation Council (SIFC). The necessity to set up this body arose because Pakistan is a federal republic, and by constitution, our provinces are autonomous in taking their own decisions. This was causing a bit of confusion and bureaucratic problems for investors. First, they had to get permissions from the province, and then from the federal government, dealing with licensing and which fee to be paid where. It was becoming very cumbersome. At times, some investors also raised security concerns.
That is why an informed decision was taken by the government to set up a body backed by legislation, so that a decision, once taken, cannot be undone by successive governments if there is a change. It also has the backing of the law so that it cannot be challenged in the courts. The body is chaired by the Prime Minister himself, and we also have the military present in it to provide assurance and confidence to the investor that there will be an element of security, because the military has a presence all over the country. With the presence of all the provinces, we have now made this a one-stop shop for investors. You don’t have to go anywhere else; you just go to SIFC, and that’s it.
The other linked step is the simplification of the visa process for Pakistan, which includes Egypt. It’s for about 126 countries. It’s a visa-prior-to-approval system. You just sit in front of a computer, upload your picture, a copy of your passport, and fill in a few columns. No fee, nothing. Just submit it, and within 48 hours, it’s in your email. You don’t need to send your passport anywhere, no stamp, nothing. Just print the paper and travel. It’s for up to 30 days, but if you become an investor and want a longer visa, you can get one for five or ten years through the same online process. We have taken care of that so that investors aren’t running after the visa thing.
You mentioned mining and tourism. What are the other priority sectors?
The other identified sectors are energy—clean energy—and agriculture. And I forgot a very, very important sector: IT and software. Here again, I see great potential between Egypt and Pakistan because, in this sector, you don’t need to send goods or samples, and people don’t even have to travel. They can sit in cyberspace and collaborate.
Pakistan is now slowly and gradually becoming a hub of freelancing. We have more than 700,000 in our IT labour force, and every year, another 75,000 are added. Like Egypt, we have a big population of about 245 million, and about 60% of our population is young. The government has been making efforts to attract more and more young people to this IT sector so that we can benefit from our youth bulge. Because of that, the government has provided numerous incentives, be it in the education sector where new courses have been introduced, or short courses where young people after high school canlearn coding in one or two years and become developers.
Another I would call revolutionary step is to introduce shared workspaces for IT developers. All these young people, who mostly work as individual freelancers, need a place to sit and work. They cannot afford an office. At home, they may not have stable electricity or a stable internet connection. So, the government has set up IT parks in major cities where a young IT or software developer can go, sit, work, and pay by usage. These are open 24 hours because they work in different time zones with the US, Australia, Europe, or the Gulf countries.
The interesting fact about Pakistan’s IT industry is that most of the more than 20,000 companies are small and medium-sized. So if a company in Egypt would like to engage an IT company in Pakistan, they would be dealing directly with the chief executive of the company. Another important aspect is that we offer much lower prices. Also, Pakistan is amongstthe top four or five countries where English is spoken, and English, as you know, is the global language in the field of IT and software. So we have an advantage there. Egypt also has a very well-educated and talented young population, and I see a lot of collaboration in that area as well.
On the other side, what challenges do Pakistani investors face here in Egypt, and what incentives could the Egyptian Government offer to make their access easier?
I think one primary challenge, which we are addressing with the Egyptian government, is the issuance of visas.Sometimes it can take a bit longer for our business people. We understand the reasons and the concerns, but we are tryingto find a way through certified Chambers of Commerce and other trade bodies, both in the private sector and government agencies, so that certified people can get a visa very quickly. Until and unless a businessperson, investor, or trader visits the country where they are interested in doing business, things cannot move forward.
Other than that, I think we don’t face that many challenges here in Egypt. The General Authority for Investment and Free Zones (GAFI), which is the body that deals with investments, and our Board of Investment have an MoU, and we can take advantage of that. I know that the Egyptian government is very keen on the promotion of investment and trade with Pakistan.
Specifically on trade, what are the goods that you think Pakistan and Egypt could trade more of?
Ambassador Shouket: There are a number of items. One is related to cotton and cotton products: home textiles, yarn, and fabric. The other area is in the field of agricultural products and food items. I think that is a very important area where there is a lot of scope both ways. For example, Egypt consumes a lot of rice, and we are one of the leading rice exporters. Unfortunately, not enough rice from Pakistan is coming here. Egypt is importing from some other countries. It’s not primarily Egypt’s fault; it may be at our end as well, depending on how much our exporters can export or what incentives they see in sending it to Europe, as we are the number one exporter of Basmati rice to the European Union. But our effort is to also focus on Egypt because this is a big country.
Another area where there is some trade happening, but again, more scope, is surgical products. Pakistan is well-known for its surgical products—not technical products, but mostly the knives and scissors used in operation theatres. And related to it is the industry of crockery and cutlery. The third is sports goods, which has already opened its doors. Egypt is a sport-loving country. We produce a lot of products, from rackets to balls to hockey sticks to uniforms, kits, shoes, and gloves.That is another area where I see a lot of products can come in.
In food items, also, Pakistan is, if I’m not wrong, the second-largest producer of rock salt. The pink Himalayan salt is very famous. It’s not only for cooking; we also make products from the rock, from lamps to decorative items. We export a lotof these things to European markets, and Egypt could be one such market as well. So, yes, there is plenty of scope.
What about cultural cooperation and people-to-people exchange?
This is a very interesting area. If you look back at the history of Egypt-Pakistan relations, among the more than 40 agreements and MoUs we have, the one on cultural cooperation was among the very first we signed, back in the early 1950s.
Another interesting fact, which is not very well-known among the younger generation, is that Umm Kulthum, as we call her, the “Nightingale of the Orient,” sang a poem by Allama Muhammad Iqbal, our national poet. It was an Arabic translation of his very famous poem, Shikwa and Jawab-e-Shikwa, which apparently became very famous in Egypt. In the late 1960s, she was awarded the highest civil award of Pakistan.
Coming back to the present time, yes, we have exchanges happening, and more can happen. One is Qawwali, a type of Sufi mystic singing that is popular in our part of the world. Every year, we participate in the Sama’a International Festival for Spiritual Music & Chanting here in Cairo. A group comes and performs and it has become very popular among Egyptian audiences.
Additionally, there is big scope, and we are working on it, in terms of exchanging films and TV dramas. Egyptian filmsand dramas are very popular in the broader Arab-speaking world, but we think there is a scope for them to be screened in Pakistan with either dubbing or subtitling. We have been doing this for a few years with Turkish dramas, and they became very popular. We have more than 100 proper TV channels in Pakistan, so there is scope. In a similar way, we want to bring Pakistani dramas here, dubbed in Arabic, and we are in negotiation with some media groups here.
We are also working on bringing some Pakistani publications about culture, having them translated into Arabic, and published and circulated here in Egypt. We have Al-Azhar Al-Sharif here, a very prestigious institution. We have students here as well. In Pakistan, we have the International Islamic University in Islamabad, where the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar used to teach. There are a number of Egyptians who go there and teach. We want to tell these stories to the younger generations of both countries so that they know more about each other.
Is there a plan to expand cooperation in the educational sector, such as through scholarship programmes or student exchanges?
We have existing mechanisms. Pakistan has a technical assistance programme, and from the Egyptian side, we get 30 scholarships for our students. But we are now trying to get more from both sides, trying to increase the number of scholarships. I will be meeting the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar on Thursday and will personally request him to consider increasing the number.
We are also focusing on encouraging more students to come to other universities in other fields, like engineering and medicine. Many Pakistani students like to go abroad to study; why not Egypt? In the same fashion, we have some of the finest universities in Pakistan, like the National University of Science and Technology (NUST), which is among the top 300 in the world. We would also love to have Egyptian students go there. There used to be a lot of Egyptian students in Pakistan. My older sister used to tell me that in her college, she had Jordanian, Palestinian, and Egyptian classmates. So why not now? That would be one of our efforts to increase.
Egypt and Pakistan have jointly pushed for a ceasefire in Gaza. Utilising Pakistan’s non-permanent seat on the UN Security Council, will there be another diplomatic push for a permanent ceasefire? And how can the two countries coordinate on a plausible scenario for the “day after” in Gaza?
Pakistan is collaborating very closely with Egypt, especially in New York and also here. We fully support all initiatives by Egypt, be it the reconstruction plan of the Egyptian government, which was endorsed by the Arab League and then eventually by the OIC. We fully endorsed it and supported it.
In terms of finding a solution for Gaza, we have made several statements and are fully aligned with what Egypt and other OIC members have called for. As far as support to the people of Gaza is concerned, Egypt has been very supportive of Pakistan’s efforts. As you know, we do not have any direct relations with Israel, but we do have relations with the people of Palestine. Our government has sent material support, like medicines, tents, blankets, and food items. There have been eight humanitarian flights that came to Egypt, and Egyptian organisations have helped in delivering that assistance. Now, the Government of Pakistan and humanitarian organisations in Pakistan are desperately waiting for any opening. As soon as the corridor opens, they are ready to bring in more aid and assistance. So yes, we are very, very thankful to the Egyptian government and authorities. They have been very supportive of our efforts.
How do you think the current conflict between Israel and Iran will impact the situation in Gaza?
Well, I think it sort of shifts the focus from a very grave, catastrophic humanitarian issue where more than 34,000 innocent civilians, women, and children have been killed. Hospitals have been completely annihilated; civic facilities have been completely destroyed; hungry people are being shot and killed. I think it is important that the focus shifts back to this unprecedented humanitarian disaster that is happening.
Regarding the recent tensions, Pakistan’s official stance, like the joint statement with Egypt, shows you are aiming for de-escalation. Besides diplomatic efforts, what is the next course of action Pakistan might take if the situation deteriorates or the ceasefire fails?
We have not closed the borders with Iran as such, but we are monitoring the situation very, very closely. Pakistan also has a significant Shia population, and they very frequently visit their religious holy sites. Our first and foremost priority was to bring them back safely to Pakistan. So an advisory was issued, and our embassy and consulates in Zahedan and Mashhad are working full-time to facilitate the return of all these visitors. So, we are organising evacuation efforts.
In terms of what Pakistan has done so far, as you know, Pakistan is a non-permanent member of the UN Security Council. Our ambassador to the UN gave a very clear statement when a special session on the current situation was called at therequest of Iran, and Pakistan helped in arranging that meeting. Our ambassador gave the official stance of Pakistan at the forum of the UN Security Council. We condemn this unprovoked aggression, which is a violation of the territorial integrity and sovereignty of a UN member state. Second, and importantly, to attack nuclear sites which are under the safeguard of the IAEA is a clear violation of the UN Charter, the charter of the IAEA, and various resolutions. And thirdly, Pakistan is in favour of finding a solution through dialogue and diplomacy. This is the official position.
There were some unconfirmed reports on social media and in some American media outlets claiming that Pakistan might send military aid, arms, and missiles to Iran. Can you comment on this?
Ambassador Shouket: I can tell you that yesterday, our Foreign Minister and Deputy Prime Minister, Senator Mohammad Ishaq Dar, from the floor of the Senate of Pakistan, gave a very clear statement addressing all these issues. He clearly said that all these were fake news, and some of the videos were AI-generated and altered. He has very clearly addressed these issues, that there is no such thing.
And there are no plans to do so in the future?
Not to my knowledge at the moment. We are very clear in what we have said so far: that we will continue to find a solution through dialogue and diplomacy. And that is why there was a statement yesterday in which we also participated with several other countries.
Following the last ceasefire with India, have there been any direct or indirect talks between the two countries?
Not at the moment. But I would refer to numerous statements by my leadership—the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Foreign Minister—and also a special parliamentary delegation that was sent to the US, London, and Brussels. The head of the delegation, former foreign minister Mr Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, made very clear statements that Pakistan is seeking dialogue which should be inclusive of everything, including the core issue of Jammu and Kashmir. We are also willing to speak about the issue of terrorism, because we ourselves suffer from terrorism. I think the country that has suffered the most in the region is Pakistan. More than 80,000 lives have been lost and more than $150 billion in economic losses to Pakistan. So we are willing to talk about everything, but there has not been any discussion so far because the other side is reluctant, or appears to be reluctant, at the moment.
On a personal level, what is your impression of Egypt and Cairo so far?
I will say only one word: I feel at home. That’s it. I don’t want to say more than this. It’s as if I am home. It’s a home posting, as we say in the foreign service.
Have you tried the Egyptian food? What was your favourite?
Slowly and gradually, yes, I’m trying. My favourite is stuffed pigeon. Koshary is like an Egyptian brand now; you talk about Egyptian food and you say koshary. Of course, I tried it before coming. But the stuffed pigeon, yes, I like it. In Pakistan, we also love eating birds—halal birds, of course. Quail is popular in Pakistan, and pigeon in some areas. So yes, the stuffed pigeon is something I like.
Quotes:
- “I will say only one word: I feel at home. That’s it. It’s a home posting, as we say in the foreign service.”
- “We want to rejuvenate the relationship for the younger generation of both countries, so that they know these stories about each other.”
- “Pakistan is sitting on a wealth of mines and rare earth metals, from copper and zinc to gold. We see a lot of potential for working with Egypt.”
- “Pakistan is seeking dialogue [with India] which should be inclusive of everything, including the core issue of Jammu and Kashmir.”
